Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Abraham (Gjest)
01.12.2008 08:34
Det er blitt skrevet en del her på forumet om hvordan penger skapes når bankene gir lån. Det finnes også noe som betegnes Private Placement Opportunity Program som er involvert i å skape nye penger i økonomien. Her er det mulig for de med mye penger å tjene astronomiske avkastninger helt uten risiko. Hvordan er det mulig? Les selv så vil du forstå at det foregår ting som mesteparten av de som jobber innen bank og finans ikke kjenner til.
MONEY CREATION
The first reason why this business exists is to create money. More money is created by creating debt. You as an individual can lend out $100 to a friend, and you can make an agreement that the interest for that loan is 10% so that he must pay you back $110. What you have done is to actually create $10, even though you don't see that money. Don't consider the legal aspects of such an agreement, just the facts. Now, the banks are doing this every day, but with much more money. Banks have the power to create money out of nothing. Since "Private Placements Opportunities" (PPOs) involves trading with discounted bank issued debt instruments, money is created due to the fact that such instruments are deferred payment obligations (debts). Money is created out from debt. .
Theoretically, any person/ company/ organization can issue debt notes (don't look at the legal aspects of it). Debt notes are deferred payment liabilities. Example: A lawful person meaning a individual or a company or some other organization is in need of $100 so he writes a debt note for $120 that matures after 1 year, which he then sells for $100 (this is called "discounting"). Theoretically the issuer is able to issue as many such debt notes at whatever face value he wants - as long as there are those that believe that he's financially strong enough to honour them upon maturity, and thereby is interested to buy such debt notes. Debts notes like Medium Terms Notes (MTN), Bank Guarantees (BG), Stand-By Letters of Credit (SBLC), etc. are issued at discounted price by some of the major world banks in a very large amount of billions USD every day.
Generally speaking they do "create" such notes (debt notes) "out of thin air" so to speak. That is, they only have to write the document. It's as easy as if you as an individual write a debt note.
Now, the core problem: To issue such a debt note is very simple, but the issuer would have problem to find a buyer unless the buyer "believes" that the issuer is financially strong enough to honour that debt note upon maturity. Any bank can issue such a debt note, sell it at discount, and promise to pay back the full face value at the time the debt note matures. But would that issuing bank be able to find any buyer for such a debt note without being financially strong enough?
An example: If you had US$ 1 million and had the opportunity to buy a debt note with the face value of US$ 1 million issued by one of the largest banks in Western Europe for let's say US$ 800,000, a debt note that matures in 1 year, wouldn't you then consider buying it if you had the chance to verify it? Now, if a Mr. Smith approaches you on the street and asks you if you want to buy an identical debt note issued by an unknown bank, would you consider that offer? As you see, it's a matter of trust and credibility only. And now, maybe, you will also understand why there's so much fraud and so many bogus instruments in this business.
fortsettelse kommer....
Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Abraham (Gjest)
01.12.2008 08:35
LARGE DEBTS' INSTRUMENTS' MARKET
As a consequence of the previous statements, there is an enormous daily market of discounted bank instruments like MTN, BG, SBLC, Bonds, PN, etc. involving issuing banks and long chains of exit-buyers (Pension Funds and large financial institutions, etc.) in an exclusive Private Placement arena.
All such activities on the bank side are done as "Off-Balance Sheet Activities", and as such, the bank can benefit in many ways. Off-Balance Sheet Activities are contingent assets and liabilities, and as such the value depends upon the outcome upon which the claim is based, similar to that of an option. Off-Balance Sheet Activities appear on the balance sheet ONLY as memoranda items. And it's first when they cause a cash flow that they will appear as a credit or debit in the balance sheet. The bank does not have to consider binding capital constraints, as there's no deposit liability.
fortsettelse kommer....
Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Abraham (Gjest)
01.12.2008 08:36
NORMAL TRADING vs PRIVATE PLACEMENT
All trading programs in the Private Placement arena involve trade with such discounted debt notes in one way or another. And to bypass the legal restrictions this can only be done on a private level. This is the reason why this type of trading is so different from the "normal" trading, which is highly regulated. In other words, this business can be done and restricted on a private level only (the Private Placement level) that falls down in a special regulation without the usual strict restrictions present on the securities market.
The normal trading known by the public is the "open market" (as the "spot market") where discounted instruments are bought and sold with bids and offers like an auction. To participate here the traders must be in full control of the funds, otherwise they cannot buy the instruments and sell them on. And there are no arbitrage buy-sell transactions on this market because all participants can see the instruments and their prices.
However, beside this "open market" there's a "closed, private market" where a restricted number of "master commitment holders" is the inner circle. These master commitment holders are Trusts with huge amounts of money that enter contractual agreements with banks to buy a certain number of fresh-cut instruments at a specific price during a specific period of time. Their job is to sell these instruments on????so they contract with sub-commitment holders??. who then contract with exit-buyers.
These "programs" are all based on arbitrage buy-sell transactions with pre-defined prices, and as such, the traders never need to be in control of the investor's funds. However, no program can start unless there's enough money behind each buy-sell transaction. And it's here the investors are needed, because the involved banks and commitment holders .are not allowed to trade with their own money unless they have reserved enough funds on the market, money that belongs to the investors which is never used, and never at risk.
The involved banks (the Trading Banks) can lend out money to the "traders" and it's typically 1: 1 0 but can during certain conditions be as much as 20: 1. So if the trader can "reserve" $100M then the bank can lend out $1B (actually, the bank is giving the trader a line of credit based on how much money the trader/the commitment holder has, since the banks don't lend out that much money without collateral) and not depending on how much money the investor has.
[Note]: as abbreviation, M is Million and B is Billion and K is thousand ... so $100M means 100 millions USD, $1B means 1 Billion USD and $1K means 1 Thousand USD.
So, if a trader says that he must be ?in control? of the investor?s fund then it means that he's not one of the "big boys" but plays on the open spot market. In this market lots of different "instruments" are traded. If the trader only needs to reserve the investor's funds, and doesn't need to be in control of the funds, then he's trading in this "private market".
Because lots of bankers and other people in the financial world are well aware of the open market, as well as being aware of the so-called "MTN-programs", but are closed out from the private market, they find it hard to believe that the private market exists.
fortsettelse kommer...
Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Abraham (Gjest)
01.12.2008 08:37
ARBITRAGE AND LEVERAGE
The real core of the trading and its safety is due to the fact that they arrange the buy-sell transactions as arbitrage, which means that the instruments will be bought and sold at the same time with pre-defined prices, and that a chain of buyers and sellers are contracted, including the exit-buyers who often are institutions, other banks, insurance companies, big companies, or other wealthy individuals. The issued instruments are never sold directly to the exit-buyer, but to a chain of up to 3 - 7 or 50 investors. The involved banks cannot for obvious reasons directly participate in this as in-between buyers and sellers, but they are still profiting from it indirectly, because they are lending out their money (with interest) to the trader, or to the investor as a line of credit. This is the leverage. Further the banks profit from the commissions involved in each buy/sell transaction of debt bank instruments in the trading circle. Now, the investor's principal doesn't have to be used for the transactions, but it's only reserved as a compensating balance ("mirrored") against this credit line. And this credit line is then used to back up the arbitrage buy-sell transactions. Now, since the trading is done as arbitrage, the money (the credit line) doesn't have to be used, but it must still be there available to back up each and every buy-sell transactions. Such programs never fail because they don't start before all actors have been contracted, and each actor knows what role to play, and how they will profit from the transactions. This is the real type of PPO's!
A trader that is able to do a leverage is able to control a credit of typically 10 to 20 times that of the principal, but even though he's in control of that money he's not able to spend the money. He only needs to show that he has the money and that he's in control of the money, and that the money is not used somewhere else at the time of the buy-sell transaction. The money is never spent. And the reason is that the trading is done as arbitrage transactions. Let me take an example:
Let's say that you're offered the chance to buy a car for $30K and that you also find another buyer that is willing to buy it from you for $35K. If the buy-sell transactions are done at the same time, then you don't have to spend $30K and then wait to earn the $35K since it can be done at the same time you cash in $5K in profit. However, you must still have that $30K and prove that you're in control of it.
Arbitrage transactions with discounted bank instruments are done in a similar way. The involved traders never spend the money, but they must be in control of it. And the investor's principal is reserved directly for this, or indirectly in order for the trader to leverage (= he's using a credit line that is 10 to 20 times of the principal, and is thereby able to trade with 10 - 20 times as much money).
Confusion is rife because most seem to believe that the money must be spent. And even though this is the traditional way of trading - buy low and sell high, and also the common way to trade on the open market for securities and bank instruments, it's possible to set up arbitrage transactions if there's a chain of contracted buyers.
You can also realize now why in these' Private Placement Programs the investor funds are always safe without any trading risk or whatever other risk except for the normal bank system risk (a bank can still virtually go bankrupt!!).
fortsettelse kommer...
Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Abraham (Gjest)
01.12.2008 08:37
HIGH YIELD
Usually these programs get a very high yield if compared with the common yield reachable with traditional investments. Most people do not believe that high yields are possible. and perhaps this example can shed some light on the matter:
Assume a leverage effect of 10:1, which means that the trader is able to back each buy-sell transaction with 10 times the amount of money that the investor has in his bank account. Let's say that the investor has $10M [some trade groups have a higher minimum investment requirement] so the trader is able to work with $100M. Now let's assume that the trader is able to do 1 buy-sell transaction per day for 3 days per week for 40 banking weeks (that's 1 year), and that the profit is 5% in each buy-sell transaction. That makes 5% x 3 = 15%, and with the leverage effect the profit will be 10 times as high, or 150% per week. Then this return will be split between the investor and the Trading Group (for projects) but the final net yield for the investor will still be a double-digit weekly yield!! Bear also in mind that the above example can be still seen as conservative because tier one level Trading Groups can get a much higher single spread for each transaction as well as a markedly higher number of weekly trades enhancing considerably the final yield!
I understand that such a high yield might seem ridiculously high, but that is because it's compared to traditional ways of investment and trading.
fortsettelse kommer..
Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Gjest
01.12.2008 08:38
INVESTORS
The involved investors (the Program's Investors) are not the end-buyers in the chain, but the real end-buyers are financially strong companies who are looking for a long term and safe investment, like pension funds, trusts, insurance companies, etc. And because they are needed as end-buyers they are not permitted to participate "in-between" as investors. The investor who participates in a Private Placement Investment Program is just an actor in the picture amongst many other actors (bank instruments issuing banks as top world banks, exit-buyers as pension-funds/insurance, etc., trading groups as traders/commitment holders, intermediaries/brokers) who gets the advantage to benefit from this trading. The investor usually does not see most of the actors involved in the process because he will deal with brokers, Trading Groups / Traders and Trading Banks only.
Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Abraham (Gjest)
01.12.2008 08:39
PROGRAMS STRUCTURE
Usually, a trading program is nothing other than a pre-arranged buy/sell transaction of discounted banking instruments made as an arbitrage transaction. Virtually, an investor with large amount of funds (on the level of USD 100M-500M) could arrange for his own program by implementing for himself the buy/sell transaction; but in this case he needs to gain control of the whole process making contact with the Provider banks for the bank instruments and at the same time for the exit buyers. This is not a simple task at all considering that there are many FED restrictions to be passed and at the same time it is very difficult to get the strong necessary connections with the related parties (the issuing banks/providers for the bank instruments and the exit-buyers).
For an investor it is much simpler (and usually more profitable) to enter a program where the Trader with his Trading Group has already everything in place (the issuing banks, the exit buyers, the contracts ready for the arbitrage transaction, the line of credit with the trading banks, all of the necessary guarantees/safety for the investor, etc.) and the investor needs only to agree with the contract proposed by the Trader forgetting about any other underlying problem.
Another advantage for the client is that he can enter a program with a substantially lower amount of money against the case to proceed by himself because he will take indirectly advantage of the line of credit of the Trading Group.
Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Abraham (Gjest)
01.12.2008 08:39
NON-SOLICITATION AND NON DISCLOSURE
As a direct consequence of the Private Placements' environment where this business has to take place, a Non Solicitation regulation has to be strictly followed by all of the involved parties. This factor strongly influences the way the parties and actors can deal each other and the way they can make contact. Sometimes this fact can be also the cause of the origin of scams (or attempts to scam) due to the fact that at an early stage it is often difficult for the investors to realize if they are really in contact with a reliable source.
There is another reason why so few experienced people talk about these transactions: virtually every contract involving the use of these high-yield instruments contains very explicit non circumvention and nondisclosure clauses forbidding the contracting parties from discussing any aspect of the transaction for a period of years. Hence, it is very difficult to locate experienced contacts who are both knowledgeable and willing to talk openly about this type of instrument and the profitability of the transactions in which they figure. This is a highly private business, not advertised anywhere nor covered in the press, and not open to anyone but the best-connected, most wealthy entities that can come forward with substantial cash funds.
Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Abraham (Gjest)
01.12.2008 08:40
HOW BANKS AND BROKERS CAN EARN
Banks are not allowed to act as investors in such programs. However they are able to profit from it indirectly in different ways (firstly getting large commissions). This fact permits some private entities like brokers, trading groups and private investors to take part in this business that otherwise would be a banking matter only! The private assets coming from private clients are necessary to start the process. These private large cash funds are the mandatory requirement for the buy/sell transactions of banking debt instruments and, as a consequence, also the mandatory requirement for the programs through the Trading Groups. Brokers are necessary to introduce the investors to the Trading Groups! Thus each of the involved entities takes their part in the sharing of the benefits (commissions for banks/ brokers and proceeds for Trading Groups and investors).
Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Abraham (Gjest)
01.12.2008 08:41
PROJECTS
Projects are usually involved in these programs. However the purpose of this type of trading is NOT to finance humanitarian projects. It's true that projects (not just humanitarian projects) can be funded as a result of this trading, and since this type of trading generates such huge amounts of money on the market, measures must be taken to keep the inflation low, and one way is to finance different projects. If too much money is created, the result is inflation, and in order to be able to continue creating debt, different measures must be taken to keep the inf1ation low. One way is to adjust the interest rates. However, for this kind of trading this is not possible; it has little or no effect. A better way is to let some of the profit be used for different projects that need funding, for instance to rebuild the infrastructure in regions of the world that have experienced catastrophes, war, etc. because that creates job for people in that region, as well as for subcontractors in the west.
So, the reason for project funding is primarily not to support humanitarian organizations (even though that also happens) but to fight against inflation.
Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Abraham (Gjest)
01.12.2008 08:42
PROCESS SYNTHESIS
The complete process involving the issuing of debt-notes, the arbitrage transaction, the programs, the projects, etc. is as a final synthesis a result of combined market forces: Banks have a method of increasing their revenues and profits, investors are able to finance different ventures, borrowers are able to access loan funds. There is a supply and demand for such instruments, and as long as the supply and demand exists then also this kind of trading will exist.
Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Abraham (Gjest)
01.12.2008 08:43
PROCESS SUMMARY
As a summary of the process involved for entering a program:
A. An investor with 10M USD and up can be an applicant for a Private Placement Investment Program
B. This business is entirely private. To get access to these investment programs, the investor needs to send his preliminary documentation to some broker whom the investor trusts to be in direct contact with the Trading Group. There is no other way for the investor to get contact with the Trading Group at this, stage.
C. After the investor has sent his own paperwork, the Trading Group will proceed to its Due Diligence on the applicant and if the response is positive, and if cleared, then the program manager in the trading group will contact the investor by phone and/or fax and invite the investor to a face-to-face meeting. However, usually, if the investor is not willing to travel, everything can be done by fax, phone, and courier mail. If not cleared, then the program manager will contact the broker and tell him that the investor did not qualify (and then the broker forwards on that information to the investor who often gets mad and might discredit the broker and intermediary, maybe on a due diligence message board).
D. During the contact with the investor, the Trader will explain the program terms/conditions, the guarantees, the contract details as well as the next step required to start the program. Then, it necessary and required by the program terms, the investor will get instructions to open a new sole signatory bank account at the Trading Bank for transferring the funds there. The Trader has prepared everything; so the investor is able to open the bank account directly without delay (because he has already been cleared). Otherwise the investor will be invited to prepare his own bank to block/reserve the funds into his own account at his own bank for one year without any transfer of money.
E. The investor will receive a contract which states the total gross yield, the percentage of the gross profit reserved for projects, the percentage for the Trading Group and the percentage for commissions/fees to be deducted for brokers/intermediaries. The net return to the investor will be wired to another investor returns' account that can be located in any bank worldwide. If the client accepts the contract, it is signed and the program is ready to start.
F. The trader is now able to leverage the investor's reserved money 10 times, and is now able to back up the arbitrage transactions with that money, a credit line that remains in the bank account that is screened before each arbitrage buy-sell transaction. Trading now continues, and the profit is paid out once per week (or per day or per month or whatever depending on the program terms) to the investor. The investor instructs the bank to wire out the commissions part to the broker's bank coordinates. The program continues the above loop for each week until the end of the program (usually 40 banking weeks via one solar year).
The programs can work with cash only. This fact does not mean that the investor will only be accepted in the case he owns cash. The investor can be accepted by some Trading Groups also with financial assets like MTN, BG, CD, SBLC, SKR, etc. that the Trader then will use for getting his own line of credit at the Trading Bank to run the program. In this case the investor will have the advantage of profiting both from the program and still from the yield coming from the instrument (i.e. the scheduled interest of a CD or MTN).
Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Gjest (Gjest)
01.12.2008 14:26
Hvordan kan dette ha foregått uten at man har fått vite om det? Noen må jo betale for dette gildet og det er vel som vanlig de som har lån og de som betaler den skatten som inflasjon egentlig er.
Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Aron (Gjest)
01.12.2008 17:36
De rike blir rikere og de fattige blir fattigere. Dette understreker igjen hvorfor vi trenger en total reform av pengesystemet. Overgang til gullstandard vil ikke løse problemene.
Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Karl (Gjest)
01.12.2008 17:46
Dette problemet løses ved at staten utsteder alle pengene.
Re: Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
gjest (Gjest)
02.12.2008 13:20
Det er da helt utenkelig!
Re: Re: Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Gjest
03.12.2008 18:00
Nei, mange har tenkt denne tanken før og forslaget er meget godt fordi det vil føre til at man kan få kontroll over pengemengden og dermed inflasjonen. At pengene mister sin kjøpekraft er helt unødvendig.
Re: Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Abramah (Gjest)
04.12.2008 10:01
Professor Prabhu Guptara mener at den fundamentale motoren som driver den globale økonomien er åger (usury), som vanligvis vil si å kreve meget urimelig høy rente men i tradisjonell betydning bare vil si å kreve renter på penger som lånes ut. Dette var forbudt i alle de store religionene og kulturene helt fra oldtiden frem til det 11. århundre, med god grunn fordi det øker forskjellen mellom folk og oppmuntrer til vekst uten å ta i betraktning miljømessige konsekvenser i tilstrekkelig grad og det skaper kortsiktig forpliktelse hos investorer.
I tillegg til at staten utsteder alle pengene må vi avvikle systemet med renter.
Sigurd kan du oversette den?
Skrevet av
Idiot (Gjest)
01.12.2008 18:11
Eller hva
Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Tore Hund (Gjest)
02.12.2008 11:25
Riktig: Det trengs et nytt pengesystem. Gjeldspengesystemet må avskaffes og et fripengesystem innføres.
http://vegtam.tripod.com/utlegg/DSS.html#art27
Og i tillegg til et nytt pengesystem bør det selvsagt også innføres et nytt økonomisk system ut over endringene i pengesystemet. Særlig vil det være av avgjørende betydning at eierforholdene i det private næringsliv endres. De ansatte bør eie minimum 60% av bedriften, kapitalen max 40%.
http://vegtam.tripod.com/utlegg/Okonomisktemahefte.html#1432
Så kommer sterke begrensninger i de fire friheter på toppen.
Etter krisen i 1929 kom det et stort antall forslag til endringer av det økonomiske sytem. Det samme vil skje denne gang.
Jeg har pekt på forslag som alt foreligger.
Fint bilde på siden din!
Skrevet av
Benny Bankboks (Gjest)
02.12.2008 12:51
Det er de j**** jødenes feil eller? Skjerp deg for faen! (Eller kom deg over på HegnarOnline eventuelt)
Re: Fint bilde på siden din!
Skrevet av
gjest (Gjest)
02.12.2008 13:30
Nei, det er ikke alle pengefyrster/bankierer som er jøder.
http://www.erichufschmid.net/TFC/History-of-Bankers.htm
Re: Re: Fint bilde på siden din!
Skrevet av
Gjest (Gjest)
04.12.2008 11:11
Det viktige er ikke om de er jøder men hva de gjør.
Re: Fint bilde på siden din!
Skrevet av
Terje (Gjest)
10.02.2009 11:28
Det er da mange flere skrullinger her enn hos Hegnar?
Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
zxc (Gjest)
02.12.2008 12:17
Skal du tvinge de ansatte til å kjøpe seg inn i firmaet de tar jobb for? Eller skal eierandelen være en gave når du begynner i en ny jobb? Hvis firmaet har negativ egenkapital, skal den ansatte da kjøpe seg inn i et potensielt konkursbo? Hvem vil kjøpe seg en jobb? God ide
Re: Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Tore Hund (Gjest)
02.12.2008 13:23
1. Eierandelen er en gave når du begynner i ny jobb, om du ikke har måttet kjøpe den.
2. Om jobben er særdeles ettertraktet, kan du måtte kjøpe den.
Re: Re: Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
zxc (Gjest)
02.12.2008 13:47
Kan være lønnsomt å bytte jobb ofte da
Dobbeltkommunikasjon
Skrevet av
Kalle (Gjest)
02.12.2008 12:56
Merker meg at du har annonser for Citibank, Telefinans, ReMembercard og GE Moneybank på siden din. Artig!
Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
jau (Gjest)
04.12.2008 11:25
dette er desverre bare en liten måte penger skapes på. Her er det altså kun rentene som skapes hver gang en lånenota lages. Det som værre er, er at bankene kan låne ut. feks 10x sin sikringskapital. La oss si 1mill som er låst. Denne kan de så i papirform gi ut 10x til sine lånekunder + renter. Så da låner 10 stk 1 mill og får dette elektronisk til sin konto. da har vi skap 10 mill av 1 mill. I tillegg kommer ekspemplet over med rentene som skapes. Dette er helt normalt og FED er vel den jeg vet om som har høyest mulighet til dette iforhold til bankgullet sitt. Husk at FED er privat! Skulle ønske folk ville låne av meg på samme måte. Ring meg hvis du er en sikker betaler ;)
Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Gjest (Gjest)
05.12.2008 15:35
Synes du det er O.K at de som allerede har mye penger i all hemmelighet får mulighet til å tjene hundrevis av prosent i renter pr. år, uten risiko, på de andres bekostning?
Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Tore hund (Gjest)
06.12.2008 21:20
Hva vil skje om vi gikk over til en rentefri økonomi ved at NB
1. satte i omløp en passe mengde fripenger årlig?
2. gav rentefrie lån til alle verdige lånetrengende i næringsliv og i det private?
Ville solen slutte å skinne? Gresset slutte å gro?
Ville arbeidslysten og den økonomiske kreativitet forsvinne?
Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Gjest
06.12.2008 21:44
inflasjonen ville da blitt et faktum
Re: Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Karl (Gjest)
06.12.2008 23:03
Nei da ville vi ikke få inflasjon fordi pengemengden ville ikke stige raskere enn veksten i BNP. Vi ville ha penger med stabil verdi og prisene ville antakelig falle noe etterhvert som man klarte å produsere varer og tjenester mer og mer effektivt i det konkurranseutsatte markedet.
Re: Re: Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Tore Hund (Gjest)
16.12.2008 13:10
Riktig, og rentens infladerende virkning ville forsvunnet sammen med den ubetalelige gjeld renten ville generert.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Gjest (Gjest)
16.12.2008 17:48
Tore Hund, du virker som en kunnskapsrik mann. Kjenner du godt nok til det norske pengesystemet slik at du kan forklare
nøyaktig trinn for trinn hvordan penger skapes i Norge. Det er god dokumentasjon på internett for hvordan penger skapes i USA. Det skjer ved at statskassen utsteder statsobligasjoner som kjøpes av blant annet store banker og utenlandske investorer, for eksisterende penger som så havner i statskassen og kan brukes til offentlige utgifter.
Helt nye penger skapes når sentralbanken (FED) kjøper statsobligasjoner, fra f.eks. en bank med nye penger som sentralbanken trykker.
Foregår det på samme måte i Norge og Europa, hvis ikke vet du hvordan?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Tore Hund (Gjest)
17.12.2008 16:40
Nei, jeg kjenner slett ikke godt nok til det norske pengesystemet, det er bare på overflaten og i grove trekk jeg mener å kjenne det. Alle detaljer ligger i det skjult for meg...
Jeg tror det i prinsippet virker slik:
1. Sentralbanken utsteder nye penger og låner dem til resten av bankvesenet.
2. De private banker låner ut de penger de rår over, men har plikt til å holde tilbake en reserve på 10%?, 8%?
3.Bankene kan altså skaffe seg penger fra egenkapital, lån fra sentralbanken, lån fra annet hold(andre banker eller lånjgivere) samt fra innskudd.
4. Også i Norge drives det såkalt "fractional banking". Det arter seg slik:
a. La oss si banken låner kr. 100 000 i NB. Den må da beholde kr. 10 000(10%?) som reservve og kan låne ut 90 000.
b. De penger den har lånt ut(90 000) kommer tilbake til bankvesenet(en eller flere banker) og kan så lånes ut igjen minus reserve, nå 81 000, og slik kan det fortsette.
1. 90 000
2. 81 000
3. 72 900
4. 65 610
......
og slik fortsetter det..
I praksis betyr det vel at bankene kan låne ut ca det 10-dobbelte av hva de rår over av verdier.
Men det skal ikke forundre meg om de også har rett til å låne ut mer enn dette...altså uten 10%-reserve av utlånet. Om bare panteobjektet er godt nok skulle det vel ikke være noen fare i å låne penger man ikke har reservedekning for?
---------
Men en helt annen ting er at banken gjennom sitt rentekrav krever mer tilbake enn den har lånt ut, og at alle de ubetalelige rentekrav akkumulerer seg til en ubetalelig samfunnsgjeld som tenderer til å vokse eksponensielt og med stor sansynlighet ende i en krise lik den vi har. Det eneste som kan hindre en slik krise, er at NB gjennom sin rente og lånepolitikk besørger en jevn strøm av konkurser som sletter deler av samfunnets gjeld og skaper fripenger(gjeldfrie penger) som i sin tur kan betale noe av det ellers ubetalelige rentekravet.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Gjest (Gjest)
17.12.2008 21:34
Jeg lurer på om Norges Bank også kjøper statsobligasjoner i markedet og betaler med nye penger, som de trykker for anledningen, slik de gjør i USA.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Tore Hund (Gjest)
17.12.2008 21:52
Om dette vet jeg lite, men jeg ville nok velge å tro at siden forholdet mellom NB og Finansdepartementet er et annet enn mellom Fed og Treasury, så vil NB's omgang med statsobligasjoner være noe annet enn de kjøp Fed gjør.
Vi bør jo huske at NB er statseid mens Fed er privat.
Finansd. kunne jo heller låne fra NB enn å kjøpe obligasjoner?
Svar de som vet.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Tore Hund (Gjest)
17.12.2008 21:54
det skal stå "selge obligasjoner".
Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Realist (Gjest)
07.12.2008 20:42
Her kan du kjapt lære alt om hvordan lån skaper penger, og hvorfor det går til h***vete når bankene ikke låner til hverandre lenger...
Paul Grignon's "Money as Debt"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279
Det interessante er at dette *ikke* nevnes med et ord i skoleverket, så du og jeg sitter å gaper når noen forklarer hvor diabolsk pengesystemet vårt er. Leve Mammon!
Re: Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Gjest
07.12.2008 21:15
Særdeles severdig serie om penger ressurser og miljø. Setter liksom ting i et større perspektiv
http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse
Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Gjest (Gjest)
15.12.2008 21:53
Hvis du gjør som regjeringen sier så kan det gå riktig galt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IrR3o7x1ps
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12.01.2009 21:33
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Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Den jordnære (Gjest)
10.02.2009 11:40
Inflasjon er en nominell og ikke en reell størrelse. Så lenge inflasjonen er stabil og forutsigbar så prises den inn i alle kontrakter som inngås og ingen kan forvente å tjene eller tape på den. Det stemmer at inflasjon er en form for "skatt". Det er fordi sentralbanken ikke trenger å betale renter på den delen av gjelda den har i form av utstedte sedler. Denne skatten er forsvinnende liten sammenligna med forreksempel inntektsskatten. Har du på det gjevne 500 kroner i kontanter blir "inflasjonsskatten" 10-15 kr pr år. Inntektsskatten er typisk 100-150 000 kr pr år.
Mye av panikken på forumet skyldes at folk finner gærninger på youtube som presenterer halve regnestykker for å forsvare en eller annen ekstrem ideologi.
Re: Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Gjest (Gjest)
10.02.2009 11:55
Mener du at denne presenterer et halvt regnestykke?
http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse
Re: Re: Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
jajajajaja!!!!!!!!!! (Gjest)
10.02.2009 13:22
Frister meg omtrent like lite å høre gjennom konspirasjonsteoriene til denne wackoen som det frister deg å lese de tørre og kjedelige diffligningene i hvilken som helst seriøs makroøkonomibok.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
hvabehager (Gjest)
10.02.2009 16:22
konspirasjonsteorier? det er jo viden kjent og udiskutabelt at vi har fractional reserve banking.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Titten Tei (Gjest)
10.02.2009 18:11
Tror du bør legge diff ligningene til side og fokusere på eksponensial funksjoner og hva som skjer med disse over tid. Dernest legger du inn p"loven" fra vestlig økonomiske modeller med krav til 4-5 % årlig vekst, så ser du hva som skjer med pengemengden etter et halvt dusin dekader. Crash Course anbefales selv for hardbarkede ingeniører, fordi det bygger på nettopp matematikk og harde fakta :-)
Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Fetter Anton (Gjest)
11.02.2009 11:33
Til Tore Hund. Om banken som låner 100000 i NB og låner ut 90000 for å ha en reserve på 10000. Når lånet på 90000 er tilbakebetalt, har banken på ny 100000 til utlån minus 10000 som må gå til reserve og låner derfor ut 90000 på ny. Stemmer dette eller stemmer det ikke?
Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Gjest (Gjest)
11.02.2009 21:40
Stemmer.
Re: Tradernes hemmelighet
Skrevet av
Elijah (Gjest)
25.06.2009 09:11
Interessant lesing.
Hvor kommer denne teksten fra?
Elijah
